Mama Deb
mamadeb
.:::.:....... ..::...:
Mama Deb [userpic]
Maybe I'm paranoid?

Was there a reason that the sign-ups for Yuletide were announced on a Jewish holiday?

Seriously - it was hree days ago. If someone on my flist hadn't said something this morning, I'd never have known. Add to that the fact that nominations were done during the week of Yom Kippur and Sukkot, so I had NO time to do it.

A girl could get a complex.

Comments

Of course there wasn't a reason. They'd been saying all along that they were working on this and hurrying with that, and hoping to get the signups open on Friday. I think they'd hoped to get them open earlier than they did on Friday, in fact.

To be honest, rather than planning to do things on days and in weeks that coincide with Jewish holidays, people who are not observant Jews are in general unaware of Jewish holidays. That's a separate thing to be disappointed about, of course, but bottom line, yes, if you think there's a plot, then you're being paranoid. :-/

I can be annoyed and frustrated, though, can't I?

I don't think it was deliberate on anyone's part, but I -- so, you know, you can always write to elynross and ask for the Jewish holidays to be kept in mind next year, because it made things difficult for you. More productive, you know?

I guess I feel like this really is one of those situations where mentioning something to the organizers a couple months ago would have avoided the whole problem; I can't imagine they'd fuss about shifting a few days to make things easier on Jewish fen. So maybe mention it now as a thing for next year.

Last year, the Jewish holidays were all on Shabbat and Sunday, so there wasn't much impact, plus things were done later for Yuletide, so it didn't come up and I had no reason to suspect there would be conflict this year.

Next year, the Jewish holidays will all be in October, although, enough for those of us celebrating them, on Tuesday and Wednesday. Which...huh. Will be a problem in terms of the signups, since that'll pretty much kill the entire week.

Yeah, they need to keep that in mind.

I'm pretty sure it was ignorance and not maliciousness. That said, I certainly understand your annoyance. Why don't you let them know for future reference (as someone else said). Hugs from a shiksa.

Because, honestly - I don't think it was malicious, but I'm not sure why they'd bother accommodating one person.

(no subject) - (Anonymous)   Expand  

I just don't do Christmas ficathons. Saves me a lot of agony it does.

It turns out that the distraction of a story with a major deadline that time of year (and that time of year only has Christmas-themed ficathons - go figure) is enough to help me stay a lot saner a lot longer, plus I'm part of this LJ-wide thing, and therefore feel less of an outsider.

Doesn't mean I don't still wish it had a neutral name. (And for the record, although I know you know this, pagan *isn't* neutral.)

We've been having holidays for 3 weeks!! (OK, with gaps, but still...) It's impossible for them to not coincide with anything, IMO. At this point I feel like I've missed at least a dozen different things =:O So yes, you're paranoid ;]

doesn't make it less annoying.

I think you're certainly entitled to feel frustrated, since the timing of the opening of sign-ups was inconvenient, but I don't think there's any reason to impute malice or prejudice to the organizers.

I don't think it was malicious, but right now I'm having a hard time getting interested in Yuletide. Just the name (which I've made no secret about how much I dislike) feels very intrusive when I'm in the middle of celebrating my own holidays, so it's kind of hard to work up any sort of squee.

It wasn't like this last year because things are different every year. Next year, if they're similarly, um. Frustrating. I may not get a chance to sign-up at all.

{hugs}

*Hugs* back.

Maybe you're paranoid? You imply, publicly, that there's an anti-semitic conspiracy behind the timing of Yuletide activities and maybe you're paranoid?

I get that you're frustrated, and I'm sorry that the timing has been bad for you, but I find this post incredibly offensive. There's enough legitimate, hurtful prejudice in the world without pointing fingers in the complete absence of evidence.

You could have pointed out your concerns to the people running Yuletide, you could have asked them your "question", but I suppose that is far less dramatic than a public post that implies they are intentionally excluding Jews from the sign-up process. Never mind that sign-ups will be open for two weeks, specifically to ensure that everyone who wants to has a chance to participate. Never mind that this year, just like last year, there will be multiple clarification posts and reminder posts going straight up through close of sign-ups to make sure that everybody is kept informed.

No, forget all that - clearly the right thing to do is publicly imply prejudice on the part of the challenge runners. I know them personally, and I can guarantee you that they would have talked this over with you, and engaged with you on it, and done so in a culturally sensitive manner if you'd given them that opportunity. But where would the fun be in that?

I've defriended you as a direct result of this post. I will lend my wholehearted support to anyone who has actually been insulted or disenfranchised due to their race, religion, or sexual orientation. But this? Is not that. This is an unfounded, hurtful and potentially reputation-damaging accusation against people who have never wronged you.

You owe them an apology.

That's your choice.

(I am a trifle confused in that you have presumably read my posts for the past several years, so you know that I don't tend to post just to make trouble, but if you want to assume that I've had a major personality change over yom tov, fine.)

My prior experience with this issue occured the day the nominations closed, when I complained (yes, jokingly, and yes, with acknowledgement of timing issues) on the post announcing the closing of nominations. I received absolutely no response.

My prior experiences with dealing with the intersection of fandom and my religious observances? Well - there have been a number of NYC get-togethers in the last several year. All of them on Saturdays. My requests (straight-forward, pleading and joking) to have them on Sundays have been ignored more than anything else, unless I was flat-out told that Sunday wasn't convenient for one person or another. I've given up. (And, yeah, there have often been good reasons, like that particular person will only be there on Saturday. Not being entirely irrational, those don't bother me.

So, while I believe the best of people, I have to believe that the moderators of yuletide cannot accomodate me, whether or not they wish to do so. That being the case, why should I take up their time asking for something they cannot give? Even if they would respond to me?

Instead I vented on my LJ. And I included the word "paranoid" in the post so people would understand that I knew I was being unreasonable. Clearly, I failed in that. I should know after all these years that sarcasm and humor often do not translate on the screen.

(no subject) - (Anonymous)   Expand  

Dude, not Jewish, but the crap that's being flung your way?

Not cool by me. :(

My condolences for all the ugly ass being flashed at you in your own lj.

Thank you.

Yeah, I could have said it a lot better. I should know better than to post in anger.

(Anonymous)

I don't know you, but this is the most ridiculous response I've seen to a post ever. Good on you for not flying off the handle like merryish.

Thank you. I'm trying. Unfortunately, it means I'm not being very patient with those around me in real life.

(Anonymous)

Wow, you're an idiot. Enjoy your stay on Fandom Wank. You deserve it.

And it's lovely to meet you, too. Whoever you are.

A friend pointed me to this entry. You've fielded a lot of wank here with grace.

You know, it seems to me that the reasonable reaction to have to this post if you are involved with the Yuletide community in anyway, would be, "I'm sorry you got left out. We didn't know it was a Jewish holiday. Please feel free to let us know earlier next year if we fail to remember and plan dates that conflict again," but that'd be assuming folks cared more about inclusion than defending themselves against any suggestion that they are ignorant of minority concerns they really are ignorant about. This taking offense when someone expresses anger as a minority being left out (even if, perish the thought, they actually seriously suggested it was deliberate) is just the shoring up of majority privilege. It's not that hard to say, "I'm sorry I left you out--I didn't mean to." Really, I've heard of no deaths resulting from uttering those words.






Thank you.

I don't even blame the Yuletide people (and I thank them for their graceful silence.) All I wanted to do was VENT!

(((HUGS)))

I understand venting frustration without blaming people. It's annoying find out that something was at a bad time for you, especially if you really wanted to get involved.

I'm sorry people have attacked you for being frustrated.

Fandom is just fandom, but it is also friendships, and for many of us...it's our hobby, it's what we do for fun, and it's annoying to find out that something isn't as available as it could have been. Life is full of such dissapointments, and that's what venting on lj is for!

I haven't read all the comments here, but obviously word has more than gotten out. Luckily, if I were to vent on my lj, no one would notice ;).

Communication can greatly improve matters. Having a 2 week sign up period is already an attempt to make it accessible to everyone. More announcements in advance might help improve that. If you *know* what the dates are, you can plan accordingly.

I know you have said you don't want to complain to the organizers, because why should they change the schedule for 'just' you? Well, we all have crazy schedules! Religious holidays, deadlines, trips, etc. So, if you suggest their announcements are more clear about dates in advance, that would help everyone, not 'just' you.

I think this difficulty was not simply a communication issue, but could have been smoothed over a bit by better communication. Then, it would be your choice to plan around their schedule...or not.

(((HUGS)))

Re: (((HUGS)))

Thank you!

I just wish I could make it all go away now, or at least that there was some way to move me from the center of all the kerfuffle.

Reposting because on my new computer I insert sentences inside other sentences and delete paragraphs:

I saw this post when you put it up but didn't get a chance to come back and comment, so I'm just now seeing the reaction to it. Wow.

FWIW, I read your post as just voicing something disappointing to you to the people who would understand (meaning fandom, since people outside of it would hardly know what the deal was with a fic exchange)! I thought your use of paranoid and complex was joking, not suggesting any conspiracy, just stating the obvious: in many parts of the world, Christian holidays are automatically worked around and other religion's holidays are invisible. I assumed it was just a "oh, drat" reaction to realizing you'd missed something due to the holiday. I took it as more of a sigh about this kind of thing in general than any real accusation or criticism against the moderators of Yuletide.

And despite preferring the Pagan version of the holiday (which I realize you can't celebrate either!), I think Yuletide also=Christian and as a casual observer I always thought this was a Christmas exchange.


I didn't even realise this was happening.

Which was careless of me - I saw your post about turning off anon comments, and wondered briefly, but I was in a hurry and didn't dig deeper to find out what it was about.

I'm so sorry.

{{{{{{{{{{Mama}}}}}}}}}

Having now had the time to go through and read the hundreds of posts/comments that have been made about this, and having been seriously disgusted by a fair portion of fandom, I just want to tell you that I throughly support you.

To me when I read it, the post quite clearly came across as: "I'm annoyed about this, but there's not really anything I can do about it, as it's just an accident of timing. So I'm just going to whine a little bit in my journal."

And the hell that was then unleashed upon you was beyond anything I could possibly have imagined. In fact, I was reading references to the whole affair on another post, and I was just dumbstruck to think that all THAT came from this.

I've seen a lot of people saying that you speak too much about being Jewish, and that's made me so angry I could spit nails. Keep speaking about being Jewish, please -- don't let these jerks silence you. If we don't talk, nothing's ever going to get better.

I just wanted to tell you that I'm sorry about all the ugliness that's been hurled in your direction.

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