Mama Deb
mamadeb
.:::.:....... ..::...:


December 2010
      1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31

Mama Deb [userpic]
Maybe I'm paranoid?

Was there a reason that the sign-ups for Yuletide were announced on a Jewish holiday?

Seriously - it was hree days ago. If someone on my flist hadn't said something this morning, I'd never have known. Add to that the fact that nominations were done during the week of Yom Kippur and Sukkot, so I had NO time to do it.

A girl could get a complex.

Comments

Unfortunately, you've hit upon one of the differences between the two religions, and why I hesitated about using that as an example -- most Christian holidays do not have a prohibition about doing anything 'work' related, or a fairly strict idea about what ‘resting’ should consist of.

Observant Jews do not use a computer when they are being observant. It's one of the ways they are observant. So your assertion that there are family and friends to deal with, and Mass to attend, it doesn't have quite the same kind of ... weightiness? I guess? that the High Holy days have for Jews.

That puts it, to me, in a slightly different category. This isn't just dealing with a few hours away, or a family that wants attention. It is much more than that.

Nobody gets to be happy and accommodated 100% of the time. It's just not feasible.

Nobody is saying they should. But there's deciding that certain compromises are not feasible, due to other realities, and then there's just not caring when someone points out a problem to you.

I mean, think about it - the actual stories go live around midnight on Christmas Eve, when 95% of all observant Christians are engaged in one or more of the following:


Frankly? That's irrelevant -- it is the nature of the ficathon that it be done on Yuletide. Therefore, everybody knows what they're getting into when they sign up for it. They'll make accommodations or not, based on their own lives.

My suggestion of the time between Christmas and New Years was because that's traditionally when people are sporadic about reading LJ, as they are busy with family and holidays and vacations. If you were to post only two reminders of an upcoming ficathon say, December 25th and then Jan 1st I bet a lot of people would be understandably surprised and a little annoyed when sign ups for something they know nothing about are suddenly announced.

But, fine. You claim that the realities of holidays don't bother you. Fine. I completely disagree with you, but that's okay. I can disagree with you.

I will, however, ask that next time you disagree with someone, can you please not manage to belittle her religion at the same time? I get that you probably didn't mean to. No, seriously, I do. You were angry and reacted that way. But I, as an observer who frankly doesn't give a damn about Yuletide, found your post to be as close as antisemitic as I ever want to see in someone I like and respect.

And I never use that word lightly.

Can you point out to me the part where I was belittling her religion? Because if I did, I want to apologize, but also if I did, I'm unaware of it.

(Anonymous)

You didn't. When all else fails, shutting up the person you disagree with cries of "You're mean and antisemitic, wahhhh!" is obviously the last card in her hand.

As a Jew, I know there are people in my community... hell, in my family... who can pull that very act off flawlessly. It pisses me off to no end, because it's essentially crying wolf when there's no need. It makes legitimate accusations of antisemitism look more suspect to the public at large, and thus, more likely to be ignored.

Shame on the people who do this. You're doing us no fucking favours.

Hi, nonymouse! I explain why I think that -- and nobody has to agree, as I'm not trying to make Merry defend herself, just explain why I was so uncomfortable with her comments (the way I wasn't with (almost) anybody else's response) -- you can check out my journal.

And I don't think she's antisemitic. I think some of her rhetoric got pretty close, that's all.

Unfortunately, you've hit upon one of the differences between the two religions, and why I hesitated about using that as an example -- most Christian holidays do not have a prohibition about doing anything 'work' related, or a fairly strict idea about what ‘resting’ should consist of.

Oh, lovely. People are supposed to research your observances of the different holidays, but obviously you can't be arsed to do the same for everyone else.

I'm Christian, and my denomination would probably take up less then the Jewish 2% of the population, so I can't claim majority rule, either. On holidays, my church doesn't use the computer, watch TV, read non-religious books; I'd be surprised if your restrictions overcome ours. People in my church couldn't sign up for 2 of the 14 sign-up days, but I'm not crying persecution over here.

So your assertion that there are family and friends to deal with, and Mass to attend, it doesn't have quite the same kind of ... weightiness? I guess? that the High Holy days have for Jews.

Your arrogance astounds me--you put down our religion while uplifting another, all in the same breath.

ladycat777 used the word "most", so she's not ignoring your existence, although I can understand how it can feel that way.

And you're still missing the point. It's not the length of time given for the sign-ups - if it hadn't been the holiday season, I still would have had Shabbat. And I wouldn't have cared, anymore than members of your church would have cared. I was bothered because a major announcement was made far enough back that I wouldn't have found out except that it was mentioned on my flist, and since there was almost no warning beforehand, I wouldn't have thought to check.

...I only found out today, because of my f-list. What makes you any different?

My personal obligations, which get in the way of someone else's LJ announcement, aren't an excuse to go implying that other people are oppressing me. I'm just surprised that you think you warrant special consideration for your personal obligations.

Man, they provided a comm so that these sort of things wouldn't happen, so that no one would miss an announcement. Like me, if you didn't utilize it, that's your problem.

If you're just upset that you missed it, that's one thing. But you are basically accusing others of excluding you on the basis of religion, and now that there is understandable backlash, instead of apologizing, you're voicing your sense of entitlement.

But I *didn't*. Or I didn't intend to do so.

And I am sorry. After being under attack for *whining* for three days, to have someone who was defending me be attacked in turn was more than I could handle.

You had legitimate arguments.

used the word "most", so she's not ignoring your existence, although I can understand how it can feel that way.

Oh, so does that apply to you, as well? As in, the Yuletide mods made the announcement available to "most" people, so you shouldn't feel like you were being ignored or excluded, even though it might feel that way?

That "most" people are Christian, so that you, a Jew, shouldn't feel excluded by that blanket statement, just like I shouldn't be offended by my denomination being excluded from "most" Christians?

How interesting. /sarcasm

Does this logic only work for you when you're excluding other people? Is this really going to be your reasoning, that my religion wasn't being ignored by that missed announcement, but yours was?

That's a pretty weak argument.

You're right -- I did. That wasn't my intent, but that's sure as hell what came out, and I'm sorry for it.

Eh. I guess everyone's just fired up about this whole thing. I've had foot-in-mouth disease many times, myself. *headdesk*

I think the internet is fertile breeding ground :)

But truly -- I am sorry. That was magnificently bad phrasing on my part, and I'm still not sure how I got to talking about the merits of the holidays, which was not my intent, ever.

Most of what I know about Christmas comes from Hollywood. I'm pretty sure that's an unreliable source.

Hi, I find this description of your holiday celebrations fascinating. My knowledge of Christian denominations is also limited, unfortunately. What denomination are you?

Seventh-Day Adventist.

We keep Sabbath (on Saturday), we have restrictions on food and drink (no unclean meat, no drinking EVER)--actually, hard-core SDAs won't eat meat at all and will not consume caffeine, let alone alcohol. We have modesty restrictions--no jewelery, no skin showing (too much).

On Sabbaths, everything is turned off. No work--and people in my church can get pretty legalistic about what this "work" entails.

We have random days of fasting and prayer. Most of us have prayer meetings during the week. Actually, many hard-core SDAs won't EVER use computers, TV, ect for any purpose other than researching religious beliefs. (I regularly had my sci-fi/fantasy books thrown out as a child. I had Sweet Valley Twins thrown out for being too secular. I had to hide them in my mattress.)

As to holidays, some people keep the "Christian" ones (like Christmas, Easter, ect), while others throw them out for being too pagan, and thus they keep the Jewish ones instead. (My family kept Christian ones, but many of my friends in college kept to the Jewish ones. So I don't really have much knowledge about that except that I was invited to celebrations every once in a while.)

Again, the severity of these restrictions depends on, well, how "orthodox" you are. And North Americans tend to be much less strict then the rest of the world.

Now I feel glad the worst I had was a couple of novels I read when I was 11-12 were confiscated by my teacher (he kept them in his desk and I eventually liberated both of them - and other confiscated items - from it's draws).

I know there's debate over whether to observe Christmas but I'd never heard of Adventists who observe only Jewish holidays. Maybe that's because I'm Australian though.

Oh and don't forget, if you're an Aussie Adventist, you must be raised on copious Sanitarium food.

Ick, ick, ick!!!

What I love? We don't eat meat because of "health" requirements, but they'll load food down with cheese and more cheese. Not to mention salt.

University cafeterias were HELL.

The observing Jewish holidays might be new? I really don't know, I only saw it in others when I went to Andrews University. They wore the head-thingies and shawls and I'm just as confused about it now as I was then. But a lot of people were doing it.

Well it depends on how health conscious the given person is. Too much salt may be bad but absolutely none tastes terrible.

Cheese is a different kettle of pirahnas for me - mid-90s Mum heard cheese caused higher ear wax production so she cut it right out of her diet (and as a result, the diet of the household). She not only reduced her earwax problem but also cut back the headache she got - cut back mine too.

Personally I do eat meat, but it's a personal choice.

In the US? We had Little Debbie and Loma Linda foods.

Talk about unhealthy. *headdesk*

I guess at least Sanitarium is geared to be healthy - it is part of the brand name, "The Sanitarium Healthfood Company". Sells Australia's biggest breakfast cereal, Weet-Bix. I hate Weet-Bix though.